Women

Poster	Message
Grand Assault Rank : 7	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 11 18:33 - One thing I've noticed about my general taste in films, actors and the whole cinematic industry is a severe lack of appreciation for females. I don't mean this in any kind of sexist way, but I would just genuinely struggle to list 5 or so female actresses who I really regarded as 'favourites' in the industry. Women who, if a film was released with them in it, I'd actively seek out and watch if I knew nothing else about the film in question. I wondered if I was the only one with this problem? A genuine observation regarding the sexist and rampant typecasting of women in Hollywood cinema? Or just my own personal lack of recognition for truly great actresses? Over to you.
GemLil Moderator Rank : 14	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 7:23 - I'm afraid this boils down to a bit of ingrained sexism in society. A man can just be a good actor/character, that is enough to get him fame. He doesn't have to be good looking, men are not expected to be beautiful, if they are good looking it is merely a bonus, not a necessity. Not particularly stunning, legendary men are common: Tom Hanks Marlon Brando Daniel Day Morgan Freeman Jim Carrey John Candy John Buluci Jeremy Irons Tim Curry (although I would for the last two). With women, they have to be first and foremost good looking, a woman is expected to be aesthetically pleasing, this often means the personality/acting skill is overlooked. I.e. Angelina Jolie Maggie Gyllenhaal Cameron Diaz Rachel Weisz Halle Berry Jessica Alba Although arguably good looking, nobody likes them..because they're boring, fake, self obsessed and vapid. Although there can occasionally be a hotty who has a great personality/skill adjusts tie, stunningly beautiful women with personality are few and far between, the rest of the plain women have to be pretty fucking phenominal (skill wise) to make it on to the radar (Kathy Burke). In fact, if you know the right people, and you're a man, you can do anything. Nic Cage's hideous face and school play acting needs to be dealt with before women can take the big screen.
robelanator VIP Rank : 115	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 8:22 - Personally, I usually don't take actors/actresses into account when deciding whether or not to see a film. The only exceptions I can think of are George Clooney (because he has great taste in scripts) and Johnny Depp (because I have an irrational man-crush on him). Otherwise, I base my decision to see a film almost exclusively on the director and/or screenwriter. But, yeah, there's no doubt that big name male actors are generally bigger box office draws than big name female actors. Harrison Ford, Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks, etc., will bring in huge numbers just on the strength of their names alone. I don't really understand the phenomenon, though.
RB6K Rank : 16	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 8:27 - Perhaps women are more likely to go to the cinema for certain male actors, whilst Men are less likely to see a film "just because shes in it" A lot of women go to see Brad Pitt and the likes, work purely based on looks. I find films with Angelina Jolie in are ones I want to avoid, I despise her acting!
GemLil Moderator Rank : 14	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 8:37 - But Robe, if you had to name your top ten actors, wouldn't it be mostly men? I don't think thats it RB, men visit the cinema more than women. And GA is not saying "do you watch films with women stars?", he's saying he fails to find any actress that he really likes, on a non-aesthetic way I imagine. I'm saying it's not his fault, most of the women are insufferable due to the fact that they are chosen for their looks.
robelanator VIP Rank : 115	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 8:46 - Indeed. I believe that's because most films have male protagonists while women are generally stuck in supporting roles-- and thin ones, at that. If more women were the true stars of films I'd certainly know of and appreciate more of them, I'm sure.
Voxy Moderator Rank : 10	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 9:09 - I think Rob's kinda hit it on the head there, that men are generally cast as the main character and therefore we see them more. There are more movies that star one, two, or three men as headliners, but not women. I also find I enjoy more male actors than I do female. I often wonder if directors just don't challenge female actors enough to step out of their boxes and do something amazing... or if maybe they just aren't cast in roles that will allow them to do so. I've noticed, though, that when a female actor does do an exceptional role, she's lauded, applauded, and congratulated far more than when a man does. It's like everyone's so surprised they have to talk about it more.
GemLil Moderator Rank : 14	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 9:29 - In 2007 Warner Bros decided that they were no longer going to look at scripts that featured a female protagonists such as Flight Plan and Invasion.
Prelude VIP Moderator Rank : 2	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 9:37 - if you had to name your top ten actors, wouldn't it be mostly men? For myself, not really. I think Nicole Kidman, Naomi Watts, Cate Blanchett, Natalie Portman, Julianne Moore, Christina Ricci, Rachel Weisz, Toni Collette, Julie Christie, Elizabeth Taylor, Audrey Hepburn, Claire Danes and others would all have a good shot at being in my Top 10 list.
Voxy Moderator Rank : 10	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 9:48 - Right... and those are all pretty standard, expected names. Anyone here would probably have similar names. Whereas with men, the lists could vary far more. Gem, are you kidding me? Is there an official statement anywhere?
Elfflame Rank : 84	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 9:49 - But who are actually in your top ten list, here at Listal? I know it's not necessarily your top favorites the way Listal works, but I only have about four women on my first page of "most watched" actors here. It seems a sign of the same thing. And it's not that I don't like actresses. I do think it's that studios aren't generally willing to let a woman carry a film. The Ripleys (of the Alien series) of the world are few and far between. And most, I think suffer from lack of support.
RB6K Rank : 16	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 10:51 - Lil, I never said women go to the cinema more. I said their motives for going might be to see "His" new film. Where as the male motive is usually not to see "Her" OR "His" new movie, we tend to go because "That looks good"
tartan_skirt VIP Rank : 5	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 12:24 - I take it no-one where reads the XKCD blog? http://blag.xkcd.com/2008/04/10/two-female-leads/ Personally I favour the females if it comes to picking a film purely based on whos in it. But then again, I've never really been one for being statistically acurate...
Grand Assault Rank : 7	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 13:11 - Thinking of times of old though I could reel off a list of female actors who were admired for their integrity and are still revered as icons today. Grace Kelly, Audrey Hepburn, Marilyn Monroe, Ingrid Bergman, Greta Garbo, Bette Davis, Elizabeth Taylor etc etc. I'm no expert on films of that bygone era, but I at least remember Audrey Hepburn in Breakfast as Tiffany as the lead, and Ingrid Bergman in Anastasia. Maybe I have a romanticised view of the past, but these women were iconic. If you look at some of the Academy Award winning women from the 90s and 00s, there are some really shocking winners. I thought equal rights had come on leaps and bounds since the 50s!
GemLil Moderator Rank : 14	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 14:06 - Gem, are you kidding me? Is there an official statement anywhere? I read it here. http://www.slashfilm.com/2007/10/07/warner-bros-says-no-more-female-lead-characters/
Vincent Valentine Rank : 163	Posted : 4 months, 4 weeks ago at Aug 12 17:24 - Umm My friend has a joke about women he says what's the best joke in the world? womens rights. So I yelled at him.
Dionysian Child Rank : 88	Posted : 4 months, 3 weeks ago at Aug 13 8:53 - Looking back on the 'Golden Years' of Grace Kelly, Audrey Hepburn, Marilyn Monroe, Elizabeth Taylor. In their society as 'women' they had somehting to prove. Men had an ideal of women and how they should look and behave, and they dictated that to women. These actresses were able to look completly tempting and sexual yet classy and sophisticated, whilst simultanously challenging men's perception of their characters. They could be witty and have wants and desires of their own, yet ultimately they still wielded to the strenght and charm of the alpha male on screen. This allowed men to see and be challenged by a new type of woman, yet feel secure she still needed him. Today I think all the mystery women hold has been laid out bare with nothing new left. We have the ladette, the girly girls, the business women, the mother. Women seem to have given up all their cards in an 'This is me- take it or leave it' stance. So its very rare for a woman to come to the screen with something hidden, a new spark that can be exploited. Being on an 'even par' with men, in todays society, as well as in films just leaves us the challenge of being as capable as men on their own turf, proving we can do whatever a man ca, as well as him. Pitting woman as equals in pysical strenght and as action heros. Clearly isn't going to happen! But yet that is what so many films have tried to do and fail. With a mountain of flopped 'tough gal' movies! Women need to be re-cast in roles that expoit and celebrate their differences to men, not their similarities. Be it in integrity, morality, sexuality or other. Not in roles that compares them and competes them against men for recognition.
Manling Rank : 52	Posted : 4 months, 3 weeks ago at Aug 13 9:04 - Women need to be re-cast in roles that expoit and celebrate their differences to men, not their similarities. Be it in integrity, morality, sexuality or other. Not in roles that compares them and competes them against men for recognition. - Dionysian Child hit the nail on the head.
Charis Rank : 292	Posted : 4 months, 3 weeks ago at Aug 13 23:57 - tartan_skirt, I read that XKCD blog post as well. I just realized how upsetting women's roles have been in film since this outburst of superhero films. The women in Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, The Dark Knight, etc is just ridiculous. The only thing Paltrow did that was anywhere near amazing was run quickly away from an explosion in high heels, and the journalist quickly deciding to sleep with Downey Jr. was downright offensive. What kind of message is that sending?
Voxy Moderator Rank : 10	Posted : 4 months, 3 weeks ago at Aug 14 8:24 - But who are actually in your top ten list, here at Listal? That's actually an interesting question. I went back to check page one of my top actors (i.e. the first 18), and there was only a single female: Drew Barrymore
Dionysian Child Rank : 88	Posted : 4 months, 3 weeks ago at Aug 19 7:39 - I think A. Jolie, is the only woman capable in current movies to have credibility as an action hero. Of course that is helped by her ample physique as much as anything else. I think its sad, but everytime I think of a female role model or heroine of mine, it goes right back to Catherine Earnshaw, Tess D'Urberville, Jane Eyre and the crew of their time. I'm not quite sure what that says....
Voxy Moderator Rank : 10	Posted : 4 months, 3 weeks ago at Aug 19 8:43 - I would never classify Jolie as a "truly great actress." That would be so insulting to those women who really are great.
Adrenaline junkie Rank : 226	Posted : 4 months, 3 weeks ago at Aug 19 9:09 - I agree with Dionysian A. jolie is a great actress.
Charis Rank : 292	Posted : 4 months, 3 weeks ago at Aug 19 10:43 - Angelina Jolie has potential, certainly. I really enjoyed A Mighty Heart. But everything else she does is CRAP. Definitely not someone I would classify as truly great - meaning, women who pick substantial film. Scarlett Johansson, for example, as well as Audrey Tautou are ridiculously better than Jolie.
Dionysian Child Rank : 88	Posted : 4 months, 3 weeks ago at Aug 19 17:03 - woaha! I never said that she was great! She is the only successful female action hero, but largely because of that wildness in her, that makes her intriguing! It was more of a tragic remark that I can only think of one woman who makes a convincing action heroine, and owes it largely to her lips, reckless behaviour and physique.
Max	Posted : 4 months, 3 weeks ago at Aug 19 17:45 This message has been deleted. Reason: junk
Dina Rank : 3013	Posted : 4 months, 3 weeks ago at Aug 19 20:35 - arent we all happy that women can do what they want now? ah... modern society....
Elfflame Rank : 84	Posted : 4 months, 3 weeks ago at Aug 19 21:09 - I like Angelina, but think she's sold herself short too often to be credible any more. I kind of wish that the trend that started in the 80s with Ripley in Aliens, and was continued with Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2 had kept going. That was the kind of female action hero we needed. One with depth, rather than one pretending to be either what a man wants, or a man herself. Maybe then, we'd have more women in the top spots.